Oh, interesting - a discussion has kicked off over on DV.com about this article (you'll need to register at dv.com to see the discusson).

But please can I encourage people to post their thoughts about the article here on UKFilm.org, just to keep the information all in one place.

Thanks,
Jack

Jack,

I liked your article. You covered most of the bases and balanced things fairly well. Quoting your article:

"For starters, cast and crew generally think of a film shoot as being more desirable than a video shoot. Of course, there are loads of reasons why this belief is irrational but nevertheless, the "shooting on film is just cooler and more pro" attitude does prevail. As such, you may find it easier to hire talented cast and crew if you're shooting on film."

I know the videophiles will hate hearing that, but I've consistently found it to be true. In fact I've had talent on S16mm shoots give me totally unsolicited comments they wouldn't be doing the shoot if it was a digital video shoot.

Also, talent tend to be non-technical and will likely lump a DV camera and a pro HD camera into the same "video" category (fair or not). They don't know much about film either but they know that it is FILM so these days they respect a Super 16 camera almost as much as they would a 35mm camera.

As far as the belief being irrational, if you are comparing Super 16 to a pro digital video format (at least 720p with decent lenses on a 2/3 CCD camera like the VariCam), perhaps it is not not so "rational". But comparing Super 16 (with a modern camera in good condition) to a DV camera I think that belief is quite rational.

Also (I know I'll get flamed on this, but I know I'm right) don't
overlook the "intimidation" factor of the larger cameras. Everyone has been conditioned by watching decades of television by adulthood. They know what a movie camera is supposed to look like and a Super 16 camera with matte box and all the accessories fits the bill closely enough (as would a Betacam if you put the film style AKS on it). A little plastic wonder-cam isn't going to impress anyone. It looks too much like a slightly larger version of the home video camera they bought at the local
big-box electronics retailer.

Can I be controversial here? Working with film is a completely different ball-game to video. I'm not talking about the technical aspects, just being on a film set using a film camera has a completely different atmosphere to it than video. I've worked with/on both and for some reason "it just is". I'm not going to attempt to quantify it (and I'd just like to disagree in advance with anyone who does).

-------------
Stephen
^{www.redcamera.net}

I've just noticed that your article seems to have mysteriously made its way onto Wikipedia, Jack.

Now how did that happen?

-------------
Stephen
^{www.aefilms.co.uk
www.redcamera.net}

Hi,

Thanks loads for your feedback about the article! Jorge - welcome to UKFilm.org.

Jorge wrote:

"don't overlook the "intimidation" factor of the larger cameras."

Yes, I agree. There is an "intimidation" factor with 16 and 35mm cameras. That special sense of tension they create between "action" and "cut".

" just being on a film set using a film camera has a completely different atmosphere to it than video."

Yes, I agree with that too. Although, Stephen, what was the atmosphere like on the D-20 shoot you worked on last year? Was it a "filmic" atmosphere? (Yes, I'm aware this is a slightly wobbly question... next I'll be asking what star sign you are!)

"I've just noticed that your article seems to have mysteriously made its way onto Wikipedia, Jack. Now how did that happen?"

Er. Magic? ;-) (well spotted, I guess you must have the 16mm article on your watchlist, yeah?)

Difficult to say with the D-20 shoot 'cause we were simultaneously shooting from an SR3! Actually, there was a buzz around the D-20 simply 'cause it was "the new toy". It looks far more like a film camera as well so... dunno really.

As for the Wikipedia thing, I added my film to the D-20 page on the Movie Making Manual WikiBook some time back and now I check every so often to see if anyone's deleted it yet (which seems to happen to things I add). I happened to be trawling through the whole Manual when I came across the "Shooting on Film on a low budget" bit and thought "hang on, this seems a bit familiar".

-------------
Stephen
^{www.aefilms.co.uk
www.redcamera.net}

"I happened to be trawling through the whole Manual when I came across the "Shooting on Film on a low budget" bit and thought "hang on, this seems a bit familiar"."

Yeah. That article has a long history! I wrote the first "version" as a reply to a question on Shooting People about a year ago. Then I submitted it as a page on WikiPedia. The WikiPedia people felt it wasn't "encyclopaedic" enough (quite rightly) so I moved it from WikiPedia to the (then very young) Movie Making Manual¹. Then, last Sunday I thought I should use my WikiBooks article as the basis for the UKFilm.org article - the UKFilm.org article is much longer and much more detailed than the WikiBooks article. You could argue that I'm not acting in true "wiki" spirit by branching the article off to a non-wikified website. But I don't think it's a big deal - I certainly haven't just copied the WikiBooks article to UKFilm.org. The UKFilm.org article - to all intents and purposes - is a completely different article to the one on WikiBooks.

¹ In fact... if I remember rightly then this article kind of triggered the creation of the Movie Making Manual. I was pissed off that WikiPedia didn't want the article so I wrote to Shooting People suggesting that we start a filmmaking wiki. Simon Tzu (who was the SP editor back then²) liked the Wiki idea and setup the first version on SP's server. The rest of the SP management didn't get the wiki idea so we moved the project to WikiBooks and Cauri (an SP contributor and friend of Simon) joined the project. The MMM is slowly growing but it's a bit of a mess right now - it needs some tidying up.

² (ooh, foot notes within footnotes)... As a side note, I think Simon did a lot of good for SP and his departure is slightly bad news for SP. From what I could gather, Simon was the most "web literate" member of the SP team except perhaps for Nic who's also left. I could be wrong though.

Thank you very much Jack

We translate in french this very interesting article

http://www.cameravideo.net/forum/pratique-films-argentiques-et-transferts-vers-dv-dvd/2413-filmer-en-super-16mm.html

If you want to use this translattion for your site, don't hésitate.

Monique

shooting in16mm anamorphic and getting 35mm cinemascope blowup prints for theatrical release
is also a better way to be in the commercial circuit and be on par with 35mm anamorphic/cinemascope/panavision and be sure that you are in commercial setup and MAINSTREAM

and make sure that the project is a commercially VIABLE and reaches MORE and MORE VIEWERS and the returns are made PROFITABLE

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies! Monique, I'm really flattered that you translated the article into French! Thanks!

Murthysnb, thanks for your feedback. I haven't personally tried shooting super-16mm in anamorphic but it's an interesting idea. Another alternative is to shoot 2-perf 2.35:1 35mm (spherical lenses). The advent of DIs means that you don't have to worry about the complexities of doing your prints optically, so you have a wider choice of shooting formats.

Hi Jack,
Thank you so much for this article, it has inspired me to take the leap from DV to film. I’ve raised a fairly good budget for my 3rd short film (first outside University) and was going to shoot HD but now I believe by employing the right DP that super 16 is the way forward!

Cheers,

Kieran

Hi Kieran,

I'm really glad the article was of some help to you! Best of luck with your filming project. Please do let us know how you get on.

Thanks,
Jack

Hi Jack
An excellent article, it has answered all my questions on 16mm. I have been trying to find a method of shooting at a very slow shutter speed for a music video I am currently planning and 16mm is the answer.
It goes to show that digital can't do everything like so many think. Celluoid is not dead.

Carl

hi, does anyone know any decent sites selling used super 16 cameras? I've only found one so far...

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Jack,

Thank you Thank you thank you.....a million times for that gem of an article. For people like me you are the film school. I have told about this to other film lovers and aspiring filmmakers who like me are less fortunate...

Once I make my film i WILL CERTAIINLY Acknowledge you ( Credits)

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